I used to be a newspaperman, part of the only profession in America where ethical and moral failings are punished. Incompetency, too.
Doctors can kill their patients, mortgage brokers can cheat their clients, mine operators can kill their miners, cops can beat up citizens, priests can rape their altar boys and rarely will they be punished.
But if a journalist embroiders or fakes, or lifts without attribution, and he gets caught, out the door.
Take Brian Williams. Since I don't have a teevee, I was barely aware of his existence, although I did see his newscast a few times in my recent trip to the Mainland. It appears that, like a lot of old soldiers (or old anybodys), as he retold old stories over the years, he improved them.
From what I have read, he did not, at the time he was reporting the news from Iraq, do that. Only later. But he has been purged nevertheless.
So be it.
Now, contrast that with the reputation of Chris Kyle, a full-on liar. And what lies.
Brian Williams' lie described him as working to do a job in a dangerous environment. (It really was dangerous even if on the day in question, he was not shot at.)
Kyle's lies presented himself as a psychopathic murderer, barroom brawler and all-around creep. So far as we know, he wasn't a psychopathic killer, but he was a sociopath.
So Texas has declared Chris Kyle Day. It looks as though Gov. Greg Abbott is pushing for title of craziest governor Texas ever had, a high bar considering previous contenders like Pass-the-Biscuits Pappy O'Daniel, both Fergusons and Rick Perry.
I used to be a newspaperman, part of the only profession in America where ethical and moral failings are punished. Incompetency, too.
ReplyDeleteYou really need to provide more warning before letting this sort of thing loose into the wild. It took me ten minutes to clean up the martini spew.
Incomptency? Really? Everything Justin Gillis writes in the NYT regarding global warming is incompetent. Practically everything I read regarding a subject I am familiar with leaves me less well informed than when I started.
Last August, before the election, Pres Obama attended a wedding with Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn. A wedding that was lavishly covered at the time, but somehow seemed to mention that fact. And failed to mention that it could not have possibly be an accident. That is malfeasance of the very first order.
I'll bet no one got fired, or even chastised.
Take Brian Williams ... as he retold old stories over the years, he improved them.
I know a lot of guys who have real stories. When I see them decades later, they tell the stories straight, without improvement.
Without lying.
Now, I can see why you'd be comfortable with a lying "journalist", but a lot of people aren't.
Kyle's lies presented himself as a psychopathic murderer, barroom brawler and all-around creep. So far as we know, he wasn't a psychopathic killer, but he was a sociopath.
Which "we" are you talking about? (I suspect you are lying here.)
Most people know Chris Kyle as a conflicted person, whose real life, without embellishment, was easily dramatic enough. Why he lied about other things, who knows? Do those lies detract from what he actually did? No.
In contrast with Brian Williams, whose lies bring into question everything he did.
The post wasn't about Williams or Kyle, It was about who rightwingers pick as heroes.
ReplyDeleteSomeone who was not -- so fa as I know -- an actual psychopath but presented as one.
Do you find that weird? Troubling? I do.
Then there's this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/joni-ernst-says-she-earned-the-right-to-call-herself-a-combat-veteran-despite-never-seeing-combat/
Harry wrote: "Do you find that weird? Troubling?"
ReplyDeleteWhat events specifically should I find weird and troubling? You're a ad hominem kinda guy so throwing out the words "psychopath" and "sociopath" coming from you convey no real meaning. Details please.
"Doctors can kill their patients,..." ever hear of malpractice suits?
ReplyDelete"mortgage brokers can cheat their clients,..." ever hear of clients defaulting on a mortgage?
"mine operators can kill their miners,..." ever hear of business lawsuits?
"cops can beat up citizens,..." ah well, that's government, so what do you expect?
"priests can rape their altar boys..." well, you got one outta five sorta right.
Williams isn't facing criminal charges either. He just has to go get another job. Big deal.
'ever hear of business lawsuits?'
ReplyDeleteI never heard of one bringing a worker back from the dead.
Psychopath: man who climbs to top of Superdome and shoots people dead.
Sociopath: man who doesn't climb to Superdome etc but claims to in order to be admired.
Weird person: governor who declares sociopath posing as psychopath a hero and gives him a special day. (Well, weird where civilization has penetrated, not so much in Texas)
So you think the governor is claiming that Kyle is a hero for making up stories (and thank heavens Kyle was making those up)? Do you think anybody can be a hero if they have any flaws at all?
ReplyDeleteThose weren't just any made-up stories, they weren't about 'Man, do you know how drunk we were last night?'
ReplyDeleteI don't know why Kyle is more of a hero than, say, Joni Ernst. But while some of my heroes have flaws, I don't believe any of them ever presented themselves to the world as psycho killers. Yes, indeed, that would disqualify a candidate hero in my world.
Texas, though, is different.
Given the popularity of American Sniper, apparently most of the US is like Texas.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can tell, in a world with organizations such as ISIS, there's a place for sociopaths to be heroes.
That speaks poorly of us. I have not seen the movie, but I interpret the cheering as vicarious gratitude for a chance to smoke some slopes, just like back in My Lai days.
ReplyDeleteISIS doesn't begin to compare in wickedness to the Imperial Japanese Army, which was defeated by, among others, my father, who was not a sociopath.
You are confirming my point, which I hardly expected you to do.
I'll add, ISIS adds nothing new to the world. My sister still has the samurai sword my father brought back from the war, the one that was used to chop the heads off Australian prisoner.
ReplyDeleteMy FB feed is exploding with fury and ignorance and racism about ISIS (and Obama playing golf), all of which proves my longtime point, that very, very few Americans know anything about their own history -- and absolutely nothing about anybody else's history; and when you limit that to rightwing Americans, they not only don't know their own history, they have a perfervid imaginary history that never happened.
To a Southerner like me, who knows from reading history but also from family lore, that history of the atrocities that swept the South after Appomatox, the situation in Syria is familiar, not exotic or rare.
The post wasn't about Williams or Kyle, It was about who rightwingers pick as heroes.
ReplyDeleteYou call yourself a newspaperman, yet you buried the lede so deep that if it was even a sentence later it wouldn't even make an appearance.
Never mind the progressives for whom a serial rapist (Bill Clinton), and affirmative action liar (Elizabeth Warren) are heroes.
So, no, I don't find that the least troubling. Kyle was, in some ways, heroic. Certainly in ways that either Clinton, or Warren, or Williams, or indeed almost any progressive, has ever come close to. That is what you should find troubling.
Then there's this.
From the cite: “I am very proud of my service and by law I am defined as a combat veteran,” Ernst said. “I have never once claimed that I have a Combat Action Badge. I have never claimed that I have a Purple Heart. What I have claimed is that I have served in a combat zone.”
She is exactly right. Your insinuation otherwise is, at very best, ignorant.
Sociopath: man who doesn't climb to Superdome etc but claims to in order to be admired.
You very badly need to consult the dictionary to learn what sociopathy is, because that word doesn't mean anything remotely close to what you think it does.
… but I interpret the cheering as vicarious gratitude for a chance to smoke some slopes, just like back in My Lai days.
What speaks poorly, of you, is that you haven't seen the movie, yet make that claim nonetheless.
ISIS doesn't begin to compare in wickedness to the Imperial Japanese Army …
You write some foolish sentences, but that pretty much takes the cake. In what way is ISIS's wickedness not comparable to the Imperial Japanese Army's?
To a Southerner like me, who knows from reading history but also from family lore, that history of the atrocities that swept the South after Appomatox, the situation in Syria is familiar, not exotic or rare.
Before you put on your moral and intellectual superiority hat, could you do me the favor of pointing out anyone who thinks otherwise?
Speaking of lies: http://wonkette.com/453090/let-us-relive-the-magic-moment-when-teabaggers-cry-death-to-the-uninsured
ReplyDeleteAs soon as the governor of Massachusetts proclaims Elizabeth Warren Day, I'm sure you'll let me know.
It wasn't the fact that Kyle told a lie. Even George Washington did that. It was the content of the lie. He expected to be admired for being a racist mass murderer.
And you know what? He was correct.
Speaking of lies
ReplyDeleteYou were full of bovine excreta when you said that the first time; repetition hasn't removed the stench.
"Teabaggers" (way to stay classy there, Harry) never cried death to the uninsured. The Wonkette link, as seems to be a rule with you, undercuts the point you are trying to make: The reaction was probably partially provoked by the insidiously stupid hypothetical that Wolf Ditzer used to ask the question, framing it in the reality-defying terms of a healthy young 30-year-old man with a well-paying job who randomly chooses not to buy health insurance before spontaneously falling ill.
Not partially provoked, wholly provoked. Blitzer's hypothetical was the perfect description of a free-rider, a parasite.
Progressives must love parasites.
He expected to be admired for being a racist mass murderer.
Bovine excreta.
Unless, of course, you can prove it.
You can't. You won't. You will shift the goal posts, or SQUIRREL.
No surprise, and not just for your astonishing track record of prevarication. Progressives have no real experience of these things. Progressives don't actually do things, they criticize. Michael Moore is a perfect example, as are the entire humanities professoriate, and most journalists.
Your profound lack of understanding leads directly to your libelous comment.
Well, they could have shouted 'No!' but they didn't.
ReplyDeleteReality-defying? Happens all the time. Not to mention accidents. You need to get out more.
'Unless, of course, you can prove it.'
I await your explanation proving he told the story because he wanted to be disdained by decent people.
Seems improbable.
Well, they could have shouted 'No!' but they didn't.
ReplyDeleteNot at all the same thing, is it? They didn't do something you twice said they did, then suddenly they are on the hook for not providing the Harry approved shout out to what Blitzer said. (Goal post shifting, check.)
And the video cut out Paul's response.
Oddly, the first time you trotted out that exercise in factual deficiency, it was from Think Progress, which strongly suggested progressives are either stupid or habitual liars.
This time, it is Wonkette doing exactly the same thing. There's a pattern here, I just know it.
Unless, of course, you can prove it.
I'm not the one engaging in defamation here, you are. So if you want to avoid earning a reputation as a liar, then you need to prove your charge.
Unlike, say, your defamatory statements about Ernst and Eastwood.
The video clip shows they did do it. You have attempted to excuse it but that is not the same as showing it did not happen.
ReplyDeleteDefamation? Did Kyle not write what he wrote? Did Abbott not proclaim what he proclaimed? If you think either was disreputable, and apparenly you do, then that is not my fault, it's theirs.
Nothing to do with my post but, considering the fallout, curious:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/eric.j.engberg/posts/10204873374051471
Only in Rightwingistan is my saying that Kyle is NOT a psychopathic murderer considered defamation. Weird is the word for it.
ReplyDeleteSkipper, on the other hand, blithely defames progressives (whoever those are) almost daily, calling them liars and defamers. Meanwhile, the shoe seems to be get a fitting on the other foot; it's a good thing schadenfreude isn't fattening:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/02/23/so-wheres-fox-news-internal-review-of-oreillys/202625
Karma is a bitch.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/02/23/argentine-historian-disputes-bill-oreillys-claim-of-protest-fatalities/
The video clip shows they did do it.
ReplyDeleteDo what?
Exactly. It is, after all, on video.
Karma is a bitch.
ReplyDeleteI have no brief on O'Reilly. If he lied, then he deserves the full treatment.
However, the link, at worst, asserts that O'Reilly reported as facts things which, afterwards, might not have actually occurred.
Whenever I read newspaper stories in the realm with which I am familiar, the lack of rigor, or even the most elementary research, is continually astonishing.
So, yes, a lot of journalism is rubbish.
(Brave reporters ask Scott Walker if he believes in evolution. Reporters never ask Hillary Clinton when life begins, or how many genders there are. Compare and contrast.)
And, yes, whenever anyone calls someone a liar, or a racist, et al, without evidence, then they are liars. It's an epistemological thing. A very basic epistemological thing.
I just now fully read that link.
ReplyDeleteI know this is going to come as a real shocker, a Mr. Jaw meet Mr. Floor in a loud, anvil like clang moment, but maybe, just maybe, state controlled media might, just might, not have assiduously reported every fact.
For sure it didn't report that O'Reilly rescued a wounded cameraman.
ReplyDeleteIt was imprudent, to say the least of it, to have decided to get on Billo's sinking lifeboat.
No doubt, considering the flood of reporting undermining O'Reilly.
ReplyDeleteAt least some of it mistaken.
Unless it was outright dishonest.
(The update is at the end.)
I'm going with dishonest.
Not mistaken. Read Maddow more carefully.
ReplyDelete