Private citizens are not supposed to conduct foreign policy in the name of the United States, although this has never been prosecuted.
Perhaps because in nearly every instance except one, the private citizen was attempting, however ineptly, to support the policy of the government. That was the case, for example, when Bishop Walsh attempted to negotiate with the government of Japan for an end to hostilities in Asia.That was Roosevelt's policy, too, and Walsh was not prosecuted.
The one case we all know of when a private citizen attempted to torpedo the policy of the government was when Flynn, acting for private citizen Trump, advised the government of Russia not to pay any attention to sanctions designed by the government of the United States to influence Russian policy in third countries (Ukraine).
Not treason, according to the very narrow definition in the Constitution, but treachery.
Open and shut case, really, and now we know, via Foreign Policy magazine, that that is just what happened and that the guilty parties knew they were guilty and the other Trump advisers knew, too, and worked to cover it up.
Obstruction? Yes. Collusion? yes.
Kind of stupid, when you think about it. You could call it the shallow state.
And it goes far back and involves advisers to Trump who were also family.
A further point. The initial attempts to destroy the effectiveness of government policy need not have been successful in order to be criminous. People go to prison for long terms all the time for attempting to break the law without ever committing the violation they were attempting.
It's called conspiracy.
Well, to compound the farse, Jared Kushner was using his private, personal email, to conduct all the foreign policy business he is entitled to nowadays.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, not a word from Skipper about that, how curious.
It's Christmas. FedEx employees are working long days. Give him time -- and rope
ReplyDeleteHanoi Jane.
ReplyDeleteBret,
ReplyDeleteMaybe not?
https://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
While Fonda's conduct could be evaluated on several grounds,she has never been accused of conducting private diplomacy. She was, of course, correct that US bombing was random.
ReplyDeleteIf you fly low enough and slow enough to aim, you don't come back. Our pilots never aimed.
An additional point about the Constitution. It provides for impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors. Not felonies. If the Framers had intended felonies, they would habe said so.
In fact, they contemplated removing the chief magistrate for actions that were not violations of statutes -- misdemeanors.
Their frame of reference was Rome and Charles I, who lost his head because the people 'could not trust the king,' not because he had broken a law.
Further about Fonda, she told the truth, which was more than any US officer or officials could claim.
Truth ought sometimes to count for something.
Right Harry. As I understand it, Fonda did not violate the Logan act, which is the one referred to in the Foreign Policy piece you linked.
ReplyDeleteNow, maybe Bret thinks she was a traitor anyway, by speaking against her army in a foreign setting, while interacting with the enemy. Well, she was not enlisted, so I have no idea if that is treasonous or not according to your Constitution. Apparently, she was not prosecuted anyway...
[OP:] The one case we all know of when a private citizen attempted to torpedo the policy of the government was when Flynn, acting for private citizen Trump, advised the government of Russia not to pay any attention to sanctions designed by the government of the United States to influence Russian policy in third countries (Ukraine).
ReplyDeleteThat is wrong on many levels.
First, "private citizen Trump" was president-elect Trump.
Second: Discussions between an incoming administration and other countries is completely routine.
Third, the sanctions Flynn was talking about were those Obama imposed after the election due to alleged Russian meddling in the election, and had nothing to do with the Ukraine. Flynn asked the Russian ambassador not to overreact to the sanctions, because when Trump became president in less than three weeks, that policy would change.
So, two elisions and one gross error. About par for your course.
[Clovis:] Well, to compound the farse, Jared Kushner was using his private, personal email, to conduct all the foreign policy business he is entitled to nowadays.
Surprisingly, not a word from Skipper about that, how curious.
Link?
[Harry:] Give [Hey Skipper] time -- and rope
Speaking of which -- have you figured out yet where the Republican Guard was during Desert Storm, or, for that matter, what a grant of cert is?
Skipper,
ReplyDeleteLink:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/09/jared-kushners-personal-email-account.php
And an excerpt:
"It has been reported that Kushner is not alone among such officials and former officials in using personal accounts for official business. Others said to have done so include Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, Gary Cohn, and Stephen Miller"
How come none of those people got that training on dealing with confidential stuff?
According to the link, no classified info is involved.
ReplyDeleteHowever, to my eye, they are dodging FOIA requirements.
Just as important as avoiding impropriety itself is avoiding the appearance of impropriety.